Can phpList handle 200000 subscribers?

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Can phpList handle 200000 subscribers?

Postby englishteam » 8:32am, Fri 13 Jan, 2012

Hi everyone, I have a list that contains more than 2100000 subscribers. A lot of companies I have asked, told me that such a large volume can be handled only be a third party like MailChimp, VericalResponse, etc. They say, if I use my own system I will always get banned by most ISP's because they will identify me as a spammer. My list is double-opt-in so I'm not a spammer. So my question is this: Can phpList safely distribute emails more to than 2100000 readers?

Many thanks,
Torsten
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Re: Can phpList handle 200000 subscribers?

Postby phplistmodcom » 3:19am, Wed 25 Jan, 2012

if you 200k list you should subscribe with aweber or getresponse, especially when you need to email them all at once. Hosted phplist is very limited one. I tried hostgator before, i only sent 500 emails per day, they kept resetting my password and told me that someone has stolen my account. so that's it.
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Re: Can phpList handle 200000 subscribers?

Postby bradm » 1:19pm, Wed 25 Jan, 2012

Hi phplistmodcom / englishteam,

I don't have experience with sending 200,000+ emails via phpList, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. As long as you rate limit the sending of the emails, you shouldn't have a problem with doing so. If you try to send 200,000 emails all at once, pretty much any server you're on is going to take a beating from this heavy task.

They say, if I use my own system I will always get banned by most ISP's because they will identify me as a spammer.

Are you referring to your ISP, or are you referring to your Web Hosting Company? If you're referring to your ISP, such as Comcast or Cox Cable, then that would mean that you have a web server setup on your computer and are sending emails directly from your computer. In that case, you would want to check with your ISP and see what they would recommend (however they probably wouldn't want you sending so many emails). If you are hosting phpList with a web host, such as InMotion Hosting or Host Gator, then you would want to check with them regarding their limitations.

If users need to opt in to receive your newlsetter, then I don't see why it would be considered spam. You'll begin to see problems when the emails go to email accounts such as Yahoo and Gmail and those users mark your message as spam. As long as no one is complaining about your emails, you shouldn't have too much to worry about.

I tried hostgator before, i only sent 500 emails per day, they kept resetting my password and told me that someone has stolen my account.

While I can't speak on behalf of Hostgator, I do actually work for a hosting company (InMotion Hosting) and can tell you that we do put a limit on how many emails you can send out in the shared hosting environment. Our limit is 250 emails per domain per hour, but you can request and increase usually up to as much as 1000 emails per hour. Even in that scenario, sending 200,000 emails at 1000 per hour would take you 200 hours (8.33 days). If you need to send emails faster than that, you could look into a provider that offers VPS Hosting or Dedicated Servers (which we do as well).
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Re: Can phpList handle 200000 subscribers?

Postby peterkphoto » 10:49pm, Tue 31 Jan, 2012

englishteam wrote:Hi everyone, I have a list that contains more than 2100000 subscribers. A lot of companies I have asked, told me that such a large volume can be handled only be a third party like MailChimp, VericalResponse, etc. They say, if I use my own system I will always get banned by most ISP's because they will identify me as a spammer. My list is double-opt-in so I'm not a spammer. So my question is this: Can phpList safely distribute emails more to than 2100000 readers?

Many thanks,
Torsten


Wouldn't it be restricted with that much volume?
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Re: Can phpList handle 200000 subscribers?

Postby uucom » 2:01am, Sat 18 Feb, 2012

I have much the same problem, which brought me to this topic thread. I need to send time-related alerts to 140,000 registered (opt-in, paying) customers about changes in tax law, and my hosting company shut me down without warning for exceeding server allocations the moment I clicked "process." Reading this thread and the phpList docs on rate (send speed), I have come to some important conclusions:

(1) Any important and/or time-related list over a few thousand requires dedicated resources (CPU, RAM and bandwidth) so your hosting service doesn't suddenly kill your misbehaving listserve and cripple your customer communications capability. The phpList docs (and advice on this thread) recommend throttling to 300-400 email per hour on shared servers, meaning (for 140k list) 14-19 days run-time to deliver! The outlook improves a lot on dedicated servers, but with some reservations...

(2) phpList docs http://docs.phplist.com/PhpListConfigSendRate indicates that phpList (recent v2.10.15) has a maximum send rate of about 3000 personalized (or 5000 plain emails) per hour (I assume on average hardware), which means upward limit of 72k (to 120k) per day-- on dedicated hardware! 2 days running full-bore to get an urgent time-related message out may not be acceptable to customers that paid to get the information in their inbox NOW.

I'm thinking that a scalable cloud-based system like Amazon Web Services, which expands on demand, may be a way to affordably deploy a phpList server farm for a couple days a months when I need big resources. The rest of the time, it just sits on their cloud at it's minimum (and cheapest) state. I am wondering if a single VM instance of phpList (when scaled out) running on multiple CPU's, with big RAM and bandwidth will increase the performance of phpList dramatically, or if cloning a couple virtual instances of phpList in parallel (and splitting up the list accordingly) would be better?
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Re: Can phpList handle 200000 subscribers?

Postby CS2 » 7:58pm, Fri 02 Mar, 2012

Two points:

First, that link says PHPlist 2.10.5, not 2.10.15.

Second, we run a highly customized/optimized version of PHPlist (the native code is not efficient for the kinds of volume discussed in this thread) that runs on a modest dual-core dedicated server and can send 30-80k per hour depending on message size.

FYI.
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Re: Can phpList handle 200000 subscribers?

Postby RAYNAU » 1:23am, Mon 05 Mar, 2012

Well, there is no automatic answer.
It depends where you are hosted and what is available.
I am just beginning to set up phplist and yesterday evening I have begun to make some trials.
First, with limits it was sending at 3500 messages per hour.
Then I moved up, and I did a test with no limit and the speed was about 13000 messages per hour with a pause between each message sent.
The program runs very well. What I have sent is a simple message with a pdf attached.
On a normal host you can base yourself on 10 000 message per hour which can be done easily except if each message has a weight of 5 Mega.
But for normal messages, let's say two or 5 sheets in text, it goes at that speed.
Keep in mind the program can run at over 10 000 messages per hour.
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Re: Can phpList handle 200000 subscribers?

Postby uzoezie22 » 5:49pm, Sat 17 Mar, 2012

As long as you said the list is double opt-in you shouldn't have problem sending them.
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Re: Can phpList handle 200000 subscribers?

Postby cybexin » 1:59pm, Thu 09 May, 2013

Please share your settings , how did you manage to achieve 30-80k messages per hour?

Thanks
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Re: Can phpList handle 200000 subscribers?

Postby cybexin » 2:00pm, Thu 09 May, 2013

Sorry , forgot to mention my version of phplist.
It's 2.10.18
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Re: Can phpList handle 200000 subscribers?

Postby RFW » 11:06pm, Sat 08 Jun, 2013

.
FYI some of which has been covered to some extent.

For your own serious bulk (BIG) mailing you will need to acquire your own dedicated server, or at least a VPS account. The latter will be a little performance restricted compared to your own dedicated.

Some data centres will perform better than others.

Shared hosted accounts are the most restricted, and differ considerably. None should be considered as serious contenders for really large lists.

    Some restrict to perhaps 20 an hour and a maximum of 200 per day!
    Some only restrict to so many per hour ie 50-500!

Read the TOS carefully before paying for an account...
One will generally find references to a hosts mailing restrictions described in the TOS Terms Of Service. It is usually those terms a host will refer to if blocking your mailing scripts or canning your account when your site is bringing the many hundreds of other shared sites on the disk almost to a grinding halt.

Most small time to average "spammers" go from one host to another with ever changing domains and names to send their crap, almost always using illegally constructed lists. Hosts auto detection S/W looks out for mass mailing tell-tale signs so that is why you can be branded a spammer even if YOU think / know your actual lists are double opt-in generated through YOUR own site... Hosts expect a serious honest large list site owner to be using / paying for dedicated / VPS servers (a non commercial sewing group or tidily-winks club will not have 50000+ members).

Parallel mailing to just one mail server is of little benefit.

Sending to a "queuing" server (ie Sendmail) is much better than direct hit & miss SMTP, especially on any sort of shared server.

Large mass mailings by the commercial sites is generally done with compiled binary S/W ie C++ or etc, and uses complex multi channel processing.

Shared hosted servers will always apply run time limits especially for PHP.

Often Perl processing is not run time limited unless the script is hogging resources therefore if reasonably large numbers per split run is possible processing will be more successful / reliable and does not stop if the browser / connection is closed. If its (the emails) being queued all the better.

Some programmers think they are clever trying to fool the server / host by applying "sleep" states during a mail out. All that does is draw attention to the extended run-time and nothing towards hiding a sites output.

If only going through the motions and testing bulk mailing WITHOUT actually "sending" anything you are just fooling yourself if you think same can be used to judge ANY sort of emails / hour achievement. I used to see even way back in the late '90s huge mailing per hour promises by kiddie programmers who obviously don't respect the difference.

Hope that helps better understand any confusion. Regards, 'imself.
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